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Friday 11 August 2017

Paint finish

The car has large sections of poor paint. In these areas, eg base of A pillar and top of wing/side of wing and doot top section on the driver's side, the paint is orange peel and whitish. Examination of the door-to-wing join shows this and it seems that there is decent paint underneath and the orange peel may actually be a poor quality over spray- the original finish is visible in the picture below against the door edge.

Close up of over-spray area note smooth paint finish lower centre left around door pillar and orange peel over-spray to the right.
I tried a combination of GRP restorer and T cut metallic to reduce the roughness.
Chalky orange peel area at base of A pillar and top of wing
 After rubbing there was some improvement but its still very poor and I suspect a more drastic method is probably needed.
After rubbing compound
The worst of the orange peel surprisingly came off as a white powder using  a sharp gasket scraper (V CAREFULLY)! Using T cut then improved matters but its still not reached "acceptable" yet. I now think this is poor quality overspray and may well be removeable if given a professional polish... Well I did check and the verdict was "No Way"! It seems a full respray is required and whilst I have to agree, I can't justify that cost so soon after the rebuild... anyway the resolution of my front bumper problem is still a long way off so bodywork is a dirty word with me at the moment!!

It seems difficult to get touch up paint... I need an aerosol spray and a touchup kit. The usual kit seems to be a Chipex but despite sending them the paintcode from the VIN plate (A35 silver) and the ICI number ( ICI P4217379), they couldn't match it. Autopaints in Brighton were more positive and I eventually got both from there. I'm very pleased with the colour match achieved.

As well as the whitish orange peel regions I also have some deep chips... well gouges really, and sadly despite my precautions there is a good chance that I am responsible for at least a few of these. Anyway I filled these with fine stopper (   ) and rubbed them flat with a sanding sponge.... * note added later... use a solid block. Sadly this did also remove the lacquer clear coat from the immediate area, but I am going to over spray with lacquer anyway which I hope will cover it. I will apply thin primer over the stopper followed by touch up which I will feather around with the thinner supplied.

Nasty gouges filled and smoothed- not great but who knows... Hole is for windscreen washer tubing P clip- missing since I had the car.

Returning to the exterior I did manage to get some aerosol A35 silver metallic and decided to check this out on the A pillar front windscreen border. This is a self contained part limited by 2 obvious joins in the GRP.



Pitted and poor quality overspray visible here. I rubbed it down with 380 grit paper on a sanding sponge support. I had to use a 240 grit briefly to remove the worst pitting and then ran over this area with 380 before finally rubbing the whole pillar section with 600.

After a clean and degrease I masked the area and sprayed using an acrylic primer (Hycote).

 I followed this with two coats of Lotus A35 metallic silver base coat and finally 2 coats of  clear lacquer

Overall I'm pleased with the effect and its a vast improvement on the pitted and blown paint that was there before. Its nowhere near as good as a proper respray but for the money it seems effective.

Feathering
Well so much for a nice self limited and defined area... sadly apart from the top half of the door, the rest of the affected paintwork merges seamlessly into areas of good finish. My attentions on those will make them worse so I need to merge the new paint into the old to obtain the best blending I can. Its necessary to understand at the outset that this is a bodge! Its not going to work 100% ...or even 80%, but hopefully it will look better than whats there at the moment. The trick is to avoid sharp spray lines and then belend the transition using T cut or similar cutting compound. I've done it before- never with any great success but  then eventually a respray will sort it out! I decided to try the feathering approach above the door where the initial sections are as affected as the A pillar, but the rears are perfect.
I rubbed down the affected area, stopping well short of where I want to make the transition, and de waxed the area thoroughly with meths- extending over and past the area of transition.
Next I masked the area. The trick here is to avoid sharp lines so use the masking tape as usual along the edges, but anywhere you need a fading transition, curl the tape and stick it on with the curl still upwards. The idea is that as you spray, the curl will increasingly shade the paintwork beneath giving a gentle fading transition of over-spray to no over-spray. Of course its essential that you don't try to spray deliberately under the curl, that would defeat the object, just spray over it as if it were an ordinary edge. This works best with wide masking tape but I only had 1"!


  • Section above door sprayed as before. Note upward curl of tape to give fading transition.



Effect when tape removed.


The transition is visible- not so much colour change as texture- the new spray just isn't mirror smooth like the old- I'm not sure it ever can be from shake cans? Anyway I need to let it harden for a few days before cutting back.

I cut back using 1500 grade paper on a firm block. Sand wet until you get a smooth finish. This shows up as uniform glossy when wet and uniform mat when dry. If there are still glossy spots then keep sanding... However I found removing all would probably mean a respray as it would go through the finish elsewhere. Probably a case of better priming needed. Anyway, once its all smooth matt, rub with T cut metallic and polish off to restore shine. This vastly improved the finish. Sadly the paint transition is still visible but I think I can live with it. All in all this gave me the confidence to tackle the upper front wing.

However as I'm spraying outside, the wind (and occasional seed head) did become more significant on a wider flatter area and it was hard to get the paint smooth. I may need to flat back and give a second coat here. Luckily the flatting and T cut did help- not perfect but improved!



The contrast with the unretouched door is now extreme.
Pitting visible on door
I rubbed down the upper half of the door panel, masked and and primed it before spraying in basecoat. Unfortunately I ran out of paint and I suspect this area will need a second coat.
Panel after rubbing down


Window frame passenger side.

The passenger's side window frame has always been rusty in this car, although I am hoping that I have tackled this in time.

Rust on vertical window divider
the worst rust was in the window channel at the top, which seems to have actually penetrated though into the framework.

I rubbed the window down with 320 grit on a block and scraped loose rust out of the top channel.


Window frame rubbed down
I treated the rust with Jenolite- this is a thin watery liquid and will run down wherever water has penetrated. You have to  keep working it for around 20 mins and then wipe off and allow to dry. During this time rust is converted and bare metal acquires a bluish tinge.
The treated frame was masked up and sprayed in rust preventing zinc primer

The whole frame inside and out was then sprayed with silk finish black paint
Resprayed top frame gutter

Resprayed frame
Finally I infilled the penetrating rust with Purafix  waterproof stopping


This has left me with a vastly improved frame which will hopefully last. However masking was very tricky and I have got a fair bit of over-spray to remove!






Tuesday 8 August 2017

Dashboard centre panel removal, radio swap, cigar lighter replacement, lighting switch removal/repair and bulb replacement

Problems have been building with the centre panel in my car: I had always known that the cigar lighter was dodgy to unusable- not that I want to light cigars but as a power source for my sat-nav it just wasn't working, it also doesn't illuminate when the sidelights are on. However I have also discovered that the tape player in the radio cassette didn't work and the lighting switch only worked when it wanted to- sidelights were more a matter of confidence than reliability so the switch must need some sort of attention. In fact it seemed loose at the base so I suspect has been removed once already. Finally the back-lighting behind the heater controls was poor. The dash in this car is the early pre 86 type, the radio isn't fitted with the ISO standard wiring connectors or mounting sleeve so all of this has led to the need to remove this panel and attend to the various problems. I was putting up with everything until I could find a suitable replacement radio... and then eBay provided in the shape of an exact model match- Sparkomatic 309F. I don't have a wiring diagram for this radio (or even an instruction manual and if anyone has one please PM me!). There were a few differences in that the radios had different sized multi-plug connectors but basically the wiring was exactly the same.

The workshop manual makes this seem an easy task;

The book states the job is done by:
Removing the gear knob and lever gaiter tray,
Remove radio,
Remove heater control knobs'
Pull out the two face level vents, and, reaching through the vent holes undo the two butterfly nuts that hold the aluminium face plate on.
Pull the fascia plate forwards and down to disengage from the dash.

Sounds simple enough- but  it isn't straightforward and there are a few pitfalls- my experience and suggestions follow!

The gear lever and gaiter are straightforward.

Unscrew the gear knob

Lift up the rear of the gear lever tray and slip it off over the gear lever.

Removing the Radio

 Despite the instruction to remove the radio- this can't be done until the dash is off, so I first just disconnected the the knobs
 Pull off the two control knobs...
... and the tone levers beneath. The radio fascia frame just pulls forward so I got a hook and pried it all around to release it.
Pulling the fascia frame
... and lifted it away.
 The two knobs beneath are secured to the dash with 13mm nuts-

There's little room for a spanner so I removed them with a wall-drive through the socket.
 
 The radio is then loose but can't be removed until the main fascia panel is off!

 Face Level Vents

The book says that these should pull out- they don't. This is a difficult and time-consuming job that will take a couple of hours! It will also shred your hands. The vents will not pull out because they are secured from behind by two spring clips. The only diagram I could find suggested that these are at each side of the vent- they are not. In my car at least they are fitted to the top and bottom of each vent. They can just be reached from each side if you remove the inboard knee panels and reach up behind the dash. If you have very long and strong fingers you can probably squeeze the clips together and pull/push the vent forwards- not many of us are built like this! The clips are tight because they are hard up against the material of the console from behind- they tend to dig in to the softer plastic and then can't be pushed down.

I found it was best to start with the top clip- press it down using a lever if necessary, and tip the vent forwards so that the top slips out.  If you then try to release the bottom, the top will clip back in, so I laid an aerosol can spray extn tube along the top of the vent to prevent it from popping back into place.
Aerosol extn tube (white) in position across the top of the vent
 Then working from beneath, push one corner of the clip upwards and pull that corner of the vent forwards, work your way along pressing the clip upwards and swivelling the vent horizontally to release more until the whole clip has passed over the dash panel
 You can then pull the vent forwards and out.
Vent released, note wide clips on top and bottom


Vent removed. The hole does provide extra access but I found I had to remove the other kick plate anyway.
 This turned out to be a brutal process. It could have been simple if the vents had been designed with front access mounting clips- but hey this is a Lotus! I did manage to scratch the plastic quite a bit before I hit on the above method and this will need making good before I can refit the vents.
Scratches on vent surround from abortive attempts at levering.

I made a mental note to file the opening a little to make the job just a bit easier if I have to do this again.** I think this difficulty arises from the clip fastening... Its held by just a single rivet and this means it can swivel during installation. If it does this one corner comes forward and digs into the GRP of the dash... It can't then fold downwards easily to let the flv pull forwards. It might be worth fitting a second pop rivet to prevent this in future.

Removing the Fascia panel

The panel is held on by two butterfly nuts, one each side of the fascia, and accessible through the FLV holes- tricky to photograph but they are in there!
One butterfly nut just visible towards bottom left side 
 They remove easily, but are likely to be a little stiff. I will use some copperslip when I refit.
Butterfly nuts removed
 The heater control knobs need to be removed... but here again I had a problem. I started with the centre knob- this was a simple pull/push fit and held on with some really sticky black goo! I needed to lever the knob from behind using a trim pry tool. This did scratch the back-plate a little but only where it will be covered by the knob when refitted. This led me into a false sense of security as I then assumed that the other two knobs will also be push-fit...mistake!! They had a latch button on the switch stalk itself which springs into a hole in the side of the knob. I had looked for these but not found them. Push the button in before pulling on the knob! I think I found an explanation for the centre knob being different later on...
I removed one of the panel dimmer knobs- this was VERY tight and stuck on with black gooey stuff. I gave up removing the second!

LHS directional control knob. Note spring-loaded button on knob stem... and damage :-{ to backplate.
 The knob has a hole to receive this button- visible below- poke the button down with a punch or similar before pulling the knob off forwards.
Hole in knob into which the spring loaded  stalk button will clip
 Once all three knobs are off, the fascia panel will pull forward- but you need to pull the bottom forwards first so as to lower the top and allow the locating lip to pop out from behind the dash.
Top lip on dash fascia panel. Note switches come forward with the panel, as do the two panel light control knobs.
 Looking behind the fascia panel, the heater back plate that fits over the light box was clearly at some time edged with foam. This had now deteriorated to such an extent that it showered everything in crumbly debris.
 More fragments in gear well and all over the radio! Yukk!

Lighting, HRW hazard warning and rear foglight switches 

The four top switches are clipped into the fascia panel and come forward with it. However they have to come off in order to remove the panel. They have a plastic latch on top and two lugs beneath. In my case the lighting switch lacked the two bottom lugs. The switches are made in two black plastic parts and are surrounded by a white fibre-optic collar for illumination. They join the loom via white multi-plugs at the rear. There is actually only one multi plug per switch- it just looks like two.
Switches still fitted in fascia plate. Note white multi-plugs to rear and fibre-optic collar surround. 
 I labelled each multi-plug to prevent confusion
Retaining latches at the top are visible.

 Pressing the multi-plug latches inwards top and bottom allows the plugs to be withdrawn.
 ... and the fibre-optic collars can then  be eased off using a probe to gently ease them over the retaining lugs
 Finally depress the mounting lugs and the switches can be pushed forwards and through the fascia panel. This is the lighting switch- the contacts didn't look very good inside.

Similarly connections to the panel light dimming switches also need to be removed  I numbered the three connector spades to the left hand panel light switch 1-3 from the top- note top contact is vacant.
... before removing them.

I did the same to the panel light connections on the right- these join the two centre contacts.

Two connectors removed form RHS panel light dimming control.

Cigar Lighter

The cigar lighter was badly corroded both inside and out. There were two connections to the back and a single wire connection to the  light ring.
Connections to rear of cigar lighter- two to the lighter itself and one for the illuminated ring.
 The bulb holder just pulls out of the illuminated ring and the terminals pull off the rear. I couldn't remove the bulb from the holder which was corroded solid. Not surprisingly the bulb wasn't working but as a new one comes with the new part I just cut it off. The fascia panel was now free and could be removed from the car.


The lighter was corroded in place but could be loosened and eventually the metal sleeve pushed outwards through the light ring


... and the light ring itself came away when it was squeezed across the mounting latches
Parts removed.
 I bought a generic replacement from Halfords, its exactly the same size although I did need to modify the wiring slightly.
 The old light had a single lead to the bulb. The current returned to earth through the body of the cigar lighter itself via a small peg that connected to the ring to the body. This arrangement is very sensitive to corrosion and when the contact is broken then the bulb will not light.

Old light ring- note metal peg projecting from the bulb holder that earths the bulb to the lighter body.
The new light has two leads

The red power lead can be connected to the original power lead for the light, and the earth is connected to the lighter body using a piggy-back spade so that the original earth lead can still be connected.

Piggy back spade connector on black earth lead to preserve contact point for lighter earth.

I connected everything temporarily to check function and everything was in order.- care the lighter gets hot in use!

Repairing the lighting switch

The pins at the rear of the switch looked fine
But looking inside the contacts appeared dirty and discoloured.

Base of switch- poor contacts inside. Note the two spring-loaded plunger resting on the centres of each rocking contact.
top of switch- dirty copper inside.
The switch is in two sections held together by a pip-and-strap on each side. These just lever away from the body and allows the contact block to be withdrawn.
The switch has two rocking contacts inside, each held down by a spring-loaded plunger- both were very dirty.
The rocking contacts should make and break contact with these buttons in the rear section of the switch. These were also very dirty
Sorry about the poor focus but the muck on the contact studs is clearly visible.

The switch flick button pulls off the rear section with the contacts and all could be removed for cleaning
Contacts after one has been removed and cleaned... does it show?

Contact studs also cleaned
I could then reassemble the switch and  reconnect it to the loom. I temporarily connected the battery so I could check that it worked and it appeared to do so. There were however no panel lights because both panel dimmer rheostats were disconnected.

Renovation of fascia panel.

The light box provides illumination behind the heater control knobs. Its fronted by a translucent panel stuck to the fascia panel and edged with foam- presumably to stop the light from straying.

The translucent panel is held on by two 8mm nuts and is easily removed for cleaning.

I had a bit of an accident with this and the plate was damaged. It seems virtually impossible to replace- it isn't even shown in the parts list and so has no part number, so I will have to carry on with whatever I have left.

The light box back itself remains in the dash. This has a reflective backing and contains 3 2W instrument bulbs BA7S. One is far left, one centre (enters from an angle above) and the final one is at the extreme right. In my case the centre bulb was broken and the right hand one inoperative. I will replace all with new ones as I don't want to be doing this again soon!

 Face level vents

The edges of the vents were scratched in my attempts at removal. I filled the scratches with stopping and let it set

Before rubbing it down with 380 grit paper until only the scratches still held filler.


I could then just dust over the frame using black plastic spray paint.



 I did the same with the fascia plate itself. This was sprayed with three coats of black paint and one of VHT crackle effect.


All painted items were left for 24 hrs to dry.

 Wiring the radio

It was obvious that there was a lot of debris behind the dash- years of sedimented sweet wrappers, dust, and grit. I vacuumed all out carefully revealing a large rusty metal plate (unknown function but I suspect important) and- surprisingly a spare heater control knob. This one had the spring contact hole and I suspect it was once the centre knob in my panel but was dropped behind the dash at some point. Rather than retrieve it, it was simply replaced with a non-standard knob. I will see about reinstating it when I rebuild! 



The radio could be lifted out
... to reveal the expected mess of wiring... and a very rusty radio case.
 Apart from the aerial connection there are two major wire bundles. Two earth wires connect to the centre nut, and a bundle of wires emerges from the other side to enter the multi-plug.
 A single red wire connects separately but doesn't for some reason pass through the multi-plug.
Note 4-pin multi-plug on existing radio.
 In fact both red wires eventually join to the same fused power supply. I suspect that one of these is supposed to be a permanent positive feed and the second fed via the ignition switch accessory position. In my case both connections are permanently live which probably explains why the radio worked even without an ignition key!
NOTE ADDED LATER:
This setup is WRONG! It will result in a large battery drain because the clock isnt supposed to be displayed unless the ignition is on. The red/white wire is a permanent live but the red should be a switched live. I was forced to revisit this when I kept going through batteries. This will be covered in a later blog so please see here.
 As I am replacing with an identical model of radio the wiring is very similar- the main difference is that the multi-plug used in the original was a 4 pin and that in the replacement is a 6 pin- although in both cases the same 4 wires only are joined via this connection.
I swapped the multi-plugs using soldered connections so that the new radio can plug into the car's loom. I fitted bullet connectors to join the loose positive leads and temporarily connected the radio to check it. It seems to work well with good quality loud sound so although I haven't yet tested the tape player, it seems the connections are good so I removed it again to press ahead with the rebuild.


 Reassembling the Fascia Panel

I refitted the light box panel by slipping it over the two retaining studs and tightening the 8mm nuts- but only loosely.
The translucent panel was originally edged in foam strip, I used foam sticky tape to edge it as I refitted it.

 The end result at this stage is a reasonably firm but movable panel as you will need it to move to align the heater control knobs later on. I think in an ideal world you would do a couple of test fits and tighten the nuts fully when its right- life is too short so I compromised- you don't have to!
Panel refitted- firm but has some slippage movement. Sadly note the damage I did to the thing by putting it down on some unset filler!- Can't remove that but as the part is obsolete I'm stuck with it.
Once the panel was back together, refitting is, as they say, the reverse of disassembly.- Except its not exactly that, because I found the new radio had some extra parts that the old one was lacking. For a start there were these nice little rubber dish washers that cover the nuts below the tone and frequency selection tab controls.

 There was also a plastic gasket fitted just below the radio frame. I wondered about this but it looks very home-made so I decided not to use that.

Finally there were these two large metal plates that go over the control knob studs and presumably brace the radio against the rear of the dash panel. My radio didn't have these but I did discover one loose and rusty one when I cleaned out behind the dash - so I'm thinking it did have them once!

This also meant that I needed to experiment with the various fittings to get the right method of installation- and I still don't think I have it right. What I opted for in the end was this...
Fit the metal tabs onto the knob stalks and above the first ring nut. Insert the radio through the upper opening and drop it down so that the knob stalks now protrude through their holes.

inserting the radio

further...

lower it and..

Pull forward to allow the knob stalks to project forward. Note the plates fitted behind the GRP

Holding the radio firmly against the dash from the inside check that the front piece projects through equally on both sides. If it doesn't, adjust the nuts behind the plates to equalise fore/aft projection both sides. The rest of the fitting has to wait until after the fascia plate is fitted but I recommend checking for function at this point - I didn't because its a faff to have to keep connecting and reconnecting the battery- I wish I had though because in my case function had ceased and I had to strip everything out again! This also goes for the switched by the way.

At this stage replace any bulbs in the light box that need changing- I fitted three new ones. You can then start to fit and wire up the switches etc on the fascia panel. I started with the cigar lighter- straight forward when you follow the instructions! Insert the light ring first (bulb holder at top). Insert the lighter body (large slots horizontal) and then twist it clockwise to lock into the light ring.

Inserting light ring
Body inserted and locked, wiring completed
insert element
 I next inserted the switches and


Fitted the fibreoptic rings and multiplug connectors. However- do not click the switches fully home because that will leeave insufficient clearance to fit the top of the fascia plate under the dash lip. Leave them loose at this stage- I had to unclip mine later!
 Wire up both panel light dimmer controls.

With the four control buttons loosened and pulled forwards, offer up the panel to the dash. You will need to keep the bottom forward against the gear gaiter and slip the retaining lip under the dash at the top. You can then ease the bottom of the fascia panel backwards making sure that the radio controls emerge through their respective holes as you do so. The heater control knobs also need to project through the  holes in the translucent light box frontspiece but will probably not be central at this stage. 

Dont forget to check and change any of the tiny capless bulbs that are used as indicators inside the hrw and foglight control buttons.





Push the knobs back on- lining them up with the projecting stalk buttons and push them in. You will need to move the translucent plate a little so that they go home smoothly. I moved on then to the rest of the radio...

Adjusting fore/aft projection, washers over knob stalks
Place a washer over the switch stalks to cover the slots and follow that with the plastic front plate. I placed another washer above the front plate and then the second ring nut. I then tightened that up to hold the radio. I am not sure that both of these washers are strictly necessary since both radios only came with one each side but I didn't want to over-stress the plastic frontspiece. Finally slip the thin black washer over the stalks and refit the tab controls before pushing the knobs back home- check function again (believe me I know!).
Add frontspiece and fix with ring nuts covered with rubber dished washers

Finally refit all control knobs
Then refit the butterfly nuts and any control knobs you've missed. Lastly refit the FLV, they will push in easily enough- BUT- make sure everything is right before you do this because getting them out again will be  a joy and a delight!
Dash fascia reinstalled.

Overall I think that the fascia panel is improved and the damage I have wrought has been disguised! The lighting button and cigar lighter are now functional and  all the lights work. Although it seems the radio wiring has come adrift at some point, at least I know how to reconnect everything- sadly a re-strip will need to wait a few days though and I will just have to put up with the lack of a radio for the time being.

Addendum...

Of course refitting the gear lever tray and trim panels is straightforward- except that I found a split in the gear gaiter...
Oops! I found the gear lever gaiter was split... another job for later!
... and one of the knee panel pop fasteners had failed. I was able to reattach the head using a pop rivet but I don't expect this repair to last.

This is the inside of the popper fastening that holds the knee panel to the centre tunnel below the dash. Sadly mine pulled apart and although I'd like to replace it I need to find an original fitting. Its an important fastener and needs to be secure. In the pic you can see that I have pop rivetted the head back as a temporary fix.

Fibre-optic sender and radio fix


I think I mentioned that I will need to tackle this job again to fix the radio. I eventually got around to it and was pleased to find that this time the stripping out of the centre fascia was pretty quick, taking only about 20 mins- largely because the face vents were much easier to remove.

I needed to address the non-working radio- which turned out to simply be an incorrect fuse- it needs two 5a; and also to sort the fibre-optics which, despite my earlier confidence, appeared not to work when tested!

The fibre-optic sender was visible through the top cutout in the dash as an octopus like structure screwed onto the scuttle or bulkhead. It resembles a mini distributor- a silver base and a black plastic cap. This is in fact exactly  what it is as its simply an enclosed bulb holder fitted with a cap that contains lenses to focus the light onto several openings into which are inserted fibre-optic cables. In some forms the lenses are also coloured so a different colour can be fed along each cable.

Fibre-optic source screwed to bulkhead. Note silver half section to left and black cap with optic cables emerging on the right.
There are lots of pictures of this unit on-line, but nowhere did I find any description of how to take it apart and check the bulb. In fact the bulb holder is a simple push fit in the silver end of the unit. I had to remove the whole thing to work this out as there isn't enough access to pull it with any force until it can be pulled forwards.
Fibre-optic generator unscrewed and rotated (right) to show the end into which the bulb holder (left) is a push fit.
Pulling the bulb holder forward to examine it showed that it was in poor condition. The bulb and cap had separated (although this might have happened during the dismantling).

using a screwdriver to lift the bulb-holder for photography- note the glass bulb has detached.
The bulb itself was cloudy, I suspect this was intentional, but it has to be admitted that an enclosed unit like this, the usual 6W bulb  must get very hot! I decided to swap the bulb for an LED to keep the heat down. Its a BA9 fitting.
LED fitted into bulb holder- tested for illumination.

Reassembly was for once, the reverse of dismantling! I have to say that I can still not see much sign of illumination in the daytime- the same goes for the instruments- all of whose bulbs have now been swapped for LEDs. I hope to get a better and more visible display if I ever drive at night.